Foreclosure Auction Notice Overshadows Campground’s Condo Plans

Ossipee – June 8, 2009 – Last week’s news that Westward Shores Marina and Campground plans to condominiumize its campsites was overshadowed this weekend by a notice in the Boston Globe saying the 227-acre facility will be sold at a foreclosure auction next month.

The notice, by James R. St. Jean Auctioneers of Manchester, states the property contains 144 boat slips and 278 campsites and has an assessed value of $6.2 million. It set the auction date for Friday, July 10 at 11 a.m. at 110 Nichols Rd. in Ossipee.

But Charlie Smith, principal owner of the business, says the auction “is not going to happen.”

Speaking by phone, Smith said he and his partners were caught by surprise because the foreclosure sale notice was not supposed to be published until the end of this week.

He said the issue between the campground and its lender is “already resolved,” and campers who have paid for the season “should not be worried” about the property being foreclosed.

Smith, who has owned the business since 1999, said the foreclosure threat is tied to the banking crisis. He said the property’s main lender sold the mortgage to another bank which then merged with a third. The merged bank sold the campground’s mortgage to investors in Miami who triggered a provision in the contract to accelerate payments.

“That’s how it started,” he said, “but it’s all being resolved.”

A message asking for comment was left with the New Hampshire attorney handling the foreclosure but was not returned.

Smith began informing returning campers of his plan to sell the campsites as condo units in early May. He said the push for the conversion came from long-time campers who had improved their campsites and wanted the security of owning the land underneath

An information letter on the proposal set “introductory price levels” at $59,500 for a wooded lot, ranging up to $178,500 for a waterfront lot. To “lock in the discounted price,” campers were asked to sign a purchase intent agreement by June 1 and make a $500 deposit.

Smith said 28 to 30 campers signed up, but the checks were returned and a May 23 information meeting was canceled after he decided to slow down the process. A May 21 email to campers said the slow down was because legal documents were not ready and the lender financing the sale had gotten “cold feet.”

Reaction to the condo proposal on Ossipee Lake Alliance’s website ranged from skeptical to critical. A poster named “Joe” said the conversion was management’s idea, not the campers’, adding “The campers are not happy about this at all, they are actually outraged!”

Another poster, “Rachael E,” wrote that she stopped staying at the campground last year because it had “steadily gone downhill under the current owners,” adding “it is no secret that the place is about ready to go belly up and this is a mad dash to get cash into the owners hands.”

Other posters complained about poor maintenance, limited activities and high prices in the camp store. Smith said he was aware of the postings and acknowledged that not everyone would welcome the condo conversion.

Last week, the Ossipee Planning Board approved the condo plan, but State regulatory hurdles remain if the foreclosure is resolved.

The campground’s initial application to DES was denied on April 28, but the agency said it would reconsider if the business provided additional information, including a Shoreland Permit. The State also requires a $150 conversion fee for each campsite, excluding the campground’s infrastructure – bathhouse, rest rooms, gate house, etc. – which is not part of the conversion.

A DES spokesman says the agency has not yet received any additional information on the project from the applicant.

39 Comments

  1. Tom 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    Give us a break Charlie….you weren’t honest in the first article and you aren’t being honest here….and certainly no 28 to 30 campers gave you any kind of deposit! You have spent no money on this campground just bled it dry…people are lining up at the office door to sell their units…some taking tremendous losses…just to get out. You thought you had financial problems before…what are you going to do with all the empty sites and people that aren’t going to pay you another dime cause they know its only a matter of time before you bankrupt this place? We feel sorry for the manager…Mark Debbytetto (spelling?) hes put his heart and soul into this place to try and fix the damage you caused…and you and your partners don’t give a damn about him or give him any money or tools to make things better…If anyone doubts that people are leaving in droves go to http://www.wwsonossipeelake.com and look at the growing list of campers for sale with their give away prices…mine included…yes Charlie you win we’ve had enough…we’re going to Danforth Bay where their is real management…excellent facilities…no chance of bankruptcy and their prices are cheaper!

  2. Rachel E. 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    Gee, accelerated payments Charlie? Do you mean that they wanted to be paid every month on time???

  3. WOW 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    There has not been one positive posting here or about the other article https://www.ossipeelake.org/news/2009/06/02/westward-shores-hopes-to-go-condo/

    The meaning is loud and clear when no one has anything good to say about the owners, not one positive comment.. That is not good, it should give them a good indication on how everyone feels about the condo conversion as well as the current situation. It would be a good idea for them to start showing that they do care about the park and the seasonal campers who have been there for many years. STOP charging fees for guests, it can only benefit you when people bring guests as if they like it they will buy!! STOP with making rules without any input from the campers 930 no golf carts, I agree that no kids using the carts after 930, but adults?? leaving a campsite to go home not being able to drive their golf cart back?? CRAZY.
    Charlie and John this is your time to step up and make some changes before you end up losing all your campers. Eliminate the fees or start using the money to fix up the park, my feeling is when we pay a fee and look around at the same mess every year you get angry. Reduce the prices at the marina store and clean up the goose crap by the docks….gross! Pump out the septic tanks so we do not have to smell that disgusting septic odor! I do agree that Mark is only one person and can only do so much, one person 251 sites, marina, bathrooms, beach to much for one person. Great job Mark!!

  4. notahappycamper 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    Charlie your nothing but a lying, cheating DIRTBAG….people like you are why this country is in the mess were in!!!………I hope nobody makes there september payment, then you will go bankrupt. That’s when we’ll get some real owners who actually care about the place, not there own pockets!!

  5. JIm 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    You people should check out the Bluffs at Danforthbay.

  6. CHRISSY 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    CHARLIE!!!!!!! YOU ARE A REAL PIECE OF WORK???. I HAVE NEVER MET SUCH A DIRTBAG IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. YOU HAVE SPOILED THE REST OF OUR SUMMER. YOU ARE THE BIGGEST LIAR I HAVE EVER MET. YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING FOR THE KIDS OR THE CAMPERS. I KNOW I SPEAK FOR ALL…………… I AM WELL LIKED BY EVERYBODY AND WE WANT YOU OUT!!! AND FURTHER MORE HAVE YOU TOLD ANY BANKS OR INSURANCE COMPANIES AND MAYBE PORTENTIAL BUYERS THE CAMPGROUND IS A FLOOD CAMPGROUND WHICH GETS AN AVERAGE OF 4 FEET OF WATER IN THE TRAILERS A YEAR.. OUR CAMPERS HAVE TO BE RAISED SO HIGH THEY LOOK REAL STUPID. OUR INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE READY TO DROP US ALL… YOUR CAMPGROUND “IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT” IS A DISGRACE.

    DANFORTHBAY HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. long time camper 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    Wow! I must say that it feels good to know that so many other people are on the same page as us. We have been camping at WWS for a long time and have seen the place get worse every year. Charlie drives around in his Tahoe and doesn’t even acknowledge the campers. I personally appreciate his fat friend who drives the “trailer trash” scooter! I think it would be best if someone with some people skills bought the place and made everyone feel good about spending their hard earned money. The location is great, Mark D. tries hard but he has his hands tied by ownership greed!

  8. willywonka 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    Chalie do both ur faces have green eyes. That campground is supposed to be a place to escape and relax, but how can we do that when all we do is pay fine and fees. It makes me feel great to see how many other ppl have the same thoughts and feelings as i do. Maybe this is karma and if u asked me i have been wondering where it has it has been this whole time. The campground needs some real ownership someone thats not consumed by greed.
    GET REAL!!

  9. writing on the wall 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    Let me start by saying the problems at Westward shores are as simple as theft, greed, and materialism on the part of the campground principle owner, our great friend Mr. Smith. Charlie Smith, is a text book example of the world’s worst business man. Anyone with at least half a high school education could realize that Westward Shores makes bank.

    In a perfect world mmmm…. Westward Shores with competent owners, people who don’t see their customers (campers) as f***ers from which they take money from, the campround would rent all its 251 sites each summer for $5,500 (to keep the numbers simple). They also would rent all the docks slips. Lets do some math 5,500 times 251 = 1.380 million. Okay so basic business profit equation: revenue-expenses = profit….1.38 million (revenue) minus practically no expenses, equals a lot of money for just sitting his fat a** in a Tahoe or one of his multiple Escalades.

    A wiseman once said, why complain- no one listens anyways, well here’s why I am bitching… Charles Smith is a terrible person, everyone of us, both fellow campers and people on the lake love Westward Shores. For many it is the only way we can afford to enjoy the lake. I am writing this to bring attention to the fact Westward Shores is essentially a gold mine…your money whether the $15 breakfast pizza or your waterfront site fee has not been re-invested in the campground. Instead your dollar clearly went to fund a cluster of failing businesses also owned and operated by Mr. Smith. Words of advice from a “f***er who just gives you money”…pull your self up by your boot straps, liquidate your other failing “assets” immediately, save our Westward Shores. At the end of the day you, Charlie will make more money and in turn will save our favorite spot, camp.

  10. love cheap boat gas 12 years ago June 8, 2009

    all i can say is this guy Smith deserves a quick trip to the poor house. I hope some one nice buys up your campground. I would myself but I doubt anyone would back a student with 6.2 bucks

  11. Rachel E. 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Wanted to thank the Alliance for giving past and present WWSers a forum to let the world know what we think of Charlie & John. The Alliance should also keep a close eye on Samantha’s Inn & Expo North two more businesses Charlie is running into the ground. I predicted the foreclosure notice on the campground and I feel confident that the next one you read will be about Sammies. Its a good thing Charlie now knows how disliked he is. Maybe he will do the right thing and sell although I hear that he is so much in debt that he will never recover and the foreclosure is all but inevitable. Hang in there campers it can only get better!

  12. careful now 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    charlie is the most despised person in the ossipee valley….however he does have friends(bought and paid for)-hello julie—–so be careful who you speak to…..he also has friends in high places…politicos etc

  13. wws hopeful camper 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Charlie is the NH Mafia.You never know who he is gonna take a hit at in his next fit of rage.

  14. See Ya.. 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Mark D. is a great Manager. He the the reason we are still there. He tells you like it is and tries to do what would seem to be right for the campers.. F_ _K Charlie, And John. Also get Scooter man out of the campground, he is a miserable person just like charlie :Mr. Personality” Charlie You know what needs to be done. Get ur Done. See Ya!!!!!
    We Do Not Want to see you In “Your what time you have left campground” All of us Campers will eventually come visit you when your Bagging or retrieving carriages at Job Lots.. I do believe in Karma do you!!!!

    Your Friendly Campers.

  15. Friend of a Camper 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    10 years ago our family owned a trailer and looked at WWS as a possible place to set up camp for the summer. I believe this time period was pre-Charlie, and our family passed on WWS at that time because it really was not a family-friendly campground: Pets weren’t allowed, boat trailers were not allowed to be left on site, the playground didn’t even exist. 3 years later, we were lucky enough to find our own house on Leavitt Bay, at the same time our good friends decided to rent a site at WWS. We were quite impressed at that time in the changes at the campground, it was obvious it was under different ownership or management since we had looked at it 3 years earlier. To learn of the recent events at the campground, I have to say that it really is unfair to the campers of WWS to be put in the position they are now in. We have watched our friends invest thousands of dollars to improve the value of their sites with add-a-rooms, patios, decks, etc., only to now fear having their space ripped right out from underneath them. And now to read what Charlie’s statement to Ossipee Lake Alliance, that the problem was a bank misunderstanding that has been resolved, well curiosity got the best of me and I called the Auctioneer myself to get the 411 from them. And guess what? The truth is no where near being told to all of you. WWS owes the town of Ossipee several THOUSANDS of DOLLARS in back-taxes, The negotiations with the bank and WWS are far from over, and the attorneys that are working for the bank that have hired the Auctioneer have given the green light to the Auctioneer to continue putting bidders packages together as of yesterday. If the problem was resolved with WWS and the bank, the Auctioneer would have been instructed to stop their work. It will be an absolute sin to for the town of Ossipee to lose WWS as a family campground. The town of Ossipee has more than 10% of it’s families living below poverty level. WWS property provides approx. $72,000 worth of property tax revenue to the town, and yet Charlie and his family drive around in their expensive cars, imposing unnecessary fees on their tenants, and continuing to penny pinch every opportunity they get, but he has failed to pay his share of property taxes to the town. I’m so sorry for all of you that I know personally at WWS, and I pray that a positive resolution comes from this so that you and your families can continue to enjoy all that Ossipee Lake offers as a summer and winter retreat.

  16. something 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Friend of camper, thank you for doing your research and hopefully it will help open up some eyes. SOMETHING needs to be done, Attorney General maybe? Audit maybe? I don’t care who Charlie knows and what connections he has. What he is doing is illegal. Using campers money to subsidize is not legal and should not be tolerated. Campers need to be loud and clear. They have been put in a very unfortunate situation, a place where they go to escape their everyday worries and enjoy family time has now become a huge headache for them! How can one raise fees, costs at store, take away any little entertainment they had, basically put zero money into the place, make millions on it and then be foreclosed on. SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT! SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!

  17. facts first 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    to friend of a camper….your “facts” are all wrong….pets were allowed and the north beach was known as the doggie beach…the playground was always there…the tennis court was re-built from clay to hot-top….there was a lifeguard that provided swim lessons…ther was yoga lessons…always activities for the kiddies every day….rec hall used frequently for dances record hops and square dance and line dance lessons…….as a 30 year camper let me tell you a few things….yes boat trailers were not allowed in the campground nor should they ever be…no car ports or portable garages….trash was picked up every day….messages were delivered by kids who got a quarter for doing so, and no freakin golf carts…a full time security person as well as volunteers that patrolled every night (on Foot) after quiet hours…no freakin fireworks anywhere in the park…no alcohol off your sight…it was carried from sight to sight in a bag…….many more facts too numerous to mention….then came charlie….it is not a campground any more…it is a honky tonk village…….we have lost probably 40% of the vegetation in wws as the so called campers have chopped everything in sight to expand their site……..alcohol every where..golf carts all over the place with non licensed kids driving(by the way parents you know the rule so why do you keep letting your kids drive)…shame on you…kids off their sight w/o supervision after quiet hours…shame again parents…unsupervised campfires with kids til all hours of the night…where are you on this parents….oh man im getting writers cramp…i could go on forever but!…feel free to repond adn i will provide more “facts”

  18. SEASONAL CAMPER 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    CHARLIE IS NOTHING BUT A SCUM BAG, TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO ALL THOSE DEDICATED CAMPERS WHO WORK THEIR A#*’S OFF ALL YEAR SO THEY CAN HAVE A PLACE TO CALL HOME FOR THE SUMMER IS NOTHING BUT A SCUM BAG. ALL US SEASONALS SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND OUST HIM AND TAKE IT OVER OUR SELVES, IT WOULD BUT RUN MUTCH HAPPIER AND WE WOULD HAVE MORE ACTIVITIES FOR KIDS AND ADULTS AND GET THINGS REPAIRED THAT NEED TO TO BE DONE.

  19. just a thought 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    facts first sounds like you are very unhappy and wondering why you are still there after 30 years! If it wasn’t for campers making their sights look clean then the place would be a total crap yard. I agree that kids should absolutely not be driving the golf carts, and for the most part Mark tries to enforce this. I disagree that Alcohol is everywhere! There are certain campers that do party a bit more than others, but that’s their choice and their right to do so, so long as they settle down at quiet hours they are within their rights! This is not a 55 and older establishment. You make it sound like kids are running around all hours of the night and that’s just not true. They are usually on their site or on a friends site and again they have that right, so long as they remain on the quiet side after hours. Again, all goes back to the management, if there were more activites for the children maybe the would not be looking for others means of entertainment.

  20. more & more facts 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    facts first is 110% right! charlie has turned this place into another shawtown. remeber shawtown people? it was an out of control alcohol fueled dump that went under and was then purchased by a responsible company that threw everyone out and restarted….now known as the highly successful danforth bay! yep, here at wws booze all over the place, dirt bikes running up and down the roads, people running power tools and hammers all weekend long, no one getting permits or following the building code, drunks with booze driving around all day and night in their stupid golfcarts, illegal fireworks at night, breakins all the time that are hushed up and charlie riding around in his big old SUV gawking at everyones wife or girlfriend. some place to bring my family or friends every weekend but now I am trapped! thank you charlie & john for a big fat nuthin!!!

  21. Friend of a Camper 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Dear Facts First…I beg to differ. The ONLY reason we decided NOT to put our trailer at WWS in 1998 was because PETS WERE NOT ALLOWED, we had a dog. That was the one and only deciding factor. And yes, there was a “playground” that consisted of a swingset, a far cry from what is there as the play ground now. I’m not denying that there we activities nor am I saying there should not be rules that children (mostly teens) should not have to abide by. I agree that a campground should not be “party central” but somewhere you can feel safe bringing your children (again – Teens) without worrying about the trouble they can get themselves into. That was not my point at all Facts First. The point I was trying to make was simply that the statement Mr. Smith gave to the Ossipee Lake Alliance (of which I am a member of) was false, according the Auctioneers statement to me yesterday. Who is telling the truth? I tend to believe the innocent person who answered the phone at the auctioneer office, who very politely filled me in on any of the details that they were aware of, one being first on the list that WWS owes the town of Ossipee THOUSANDS of dollars in back taxes. Shame on WWS for not bearing their share of the burden in supporting the town of Ossipee. We pay our taxes every quarter to the town (and let me tell you – they aren’t cheap, the seasonal waterfront owners basically subsidize the town!) and we get nothing from the Town of Ossipee in return except for the privilege of enjoying all that Ossipee Lake has to offer…we do not receive any town services, we aren’t even allowed a as say in town elections. Bottom line is it sure sounds like the management of WWS is in need of an overhaul by someone who is honest and forthright, and also knows what it takes to run a business, because although WWS campground is a family getaway for all of you, it is a potential money-making business for the owner. Those would be the FACTS FIRST.

  22. another thought 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Isn’t it funny that we the campers have yet to hear a word about any of this from the management at WWS. No explanations as to where our money is actually going. No apologies for any of the headaches they are causing! No explanation period! Not that many would believe a word of it right now but just something apologizing for making everyone feel this way! They do have a website – why not post a few words on it!

  23. why spend all that money 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Sounds like a bad situation. I don’t really understand why people would invest all kinds of money on a campsite they do not own there is always a risk the owner could go under no matter if they are good or bad.

  24. responding 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    why spend all that money ~ live and learn I guess!

  25. reconsider 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Reading this is like being in a support group and airing frustrations felt over the past few years. It is unfortunate that we are now in the position of a fire sale due to the slumlord mismanagement and self serving attitude of Charlie. I pay my seasonal fee and my taxes to the Town of Ossipee. I am an adult with the ability to determine my personal and financial direction. I am tired of being a tenant with no voice or rights. The writing was on the wall when he kicked out a family (4 young children, the epitome of “family camping”). We learned to be careful and fear the great and powerful Mr. Smith. He had the sweeping hand of a dictator and the ability to keep us little minions in check. It begs the question, though, why do we continue to let him guide our personal and financial decisions? Because HE is an incompetent businessman guided solely by self serving interest, why are we are now taking a financial soaking? He has reduced the value of our camps and, in the interest of cutting our losses and refusing to be in bed any longer with this man, we are leaving. But wait. He will still drive off in one of his royal coaches. He will still be able to afford to buy another wife. Maybe it’s time to hitch up our trousers and resume an adult stance. Let him figure this out and take the bigger hit. Maybe we should sit tight and let someone purchase this BEAUTIFUL campground and at foreclosure. It might be worth reconsidering all the benefits of seasonal camping on beautiful Lake Ossipee minus the emotional distraction of being taken for monetary fools. Think of the lake minus the current landlord. There are real business people out there who have a better philosophy. Tenants treated well will return more, not less.

  26. hereyago 12 years ago June 9, 2009

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  27. See Ya.. 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Mark D, Are you reading any of these comments????????? Are you Here???

  28. Happy to be out 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    You would have a better chance of investing with Bernard Madoff than with Charlie Smith. I distinctly remember him throwing out a wonderful well liked family that was in a log cabin on the waterfront because of a comment that was made about a disturbance between their son and Julie’s (aka – a modified Barbie doll) son. The biggest offender of the fireworks was Charlie himself – an uncontrollable child who would be drunk sitting in the bushes to catch any kids out after curfew. If any child was out – the whole family would be evicted that night – no matter what time. Certain rules for certain people is his motto. Goodhue and Hawkins and Doverpoint Marina are another example of his businesses going down under.

  29. long time camper 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Just a quick thought to friend of camper. My family was at WWS over 10 years ago and everyone had dogs. I’m not sure who told you pets weren’t allowed but that wasn’t true. I myself have been there since 1995 and had a dog. Hate to get off track with ancient history! The moral of this story is Charlie and his bad practices. Every dog has his day and I hope his comes soon. The best thing that could happen to WWS is the demise of Charlie. I just really hope that someone comes to the rescue of this campground that has been an absolute joy to our family for a long time.

  30. Friend of a Camper 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Long time camper, what kind of dog did you have? It might have been our dog was too big? I don’t remember 100% now, other than I definitely know that was the reason we didn’t come there, we ended up in a place in Derry on Big Island Pond. We had a German Shepard at the time (and a new one now too 🙂 ) and like I said, when we came for a “tour” of the available sites, that was the first question we asked, and we were told she was not allowed, so we ended the tour right there – made it as far as the available sites, never even got to the beach front. Another point I was trying to make in my first message was that I was so impressed 3 years later when our friends had rented a site there when we came to visit the definite visible changes that had been made with the new ownewship/management. The big playground had been added, etc. It was obvious that Charlie had the right idea in the beginning. It is just too bad that it has come to this mess. We are just glad that we were blessed and fortunate enough to be able to purchase our own property, and it’s bad enough to have the town/state tell us what we can and cannot do with our own property, but I’ll be damned if they tell me who can and cannot come to visit, or if I can put up a welcome sign or American Flag on the tree outside my front porch. I wish all of the WWS tenants the best of luck in coming to a mutual agreement with the campground so that you all may continue to enjoy many more years of lakefront memories.

  31. David Mason 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Wow, I think Charlie is the only person that could let such a great place fail. Just about everything in his life fails, from businesses, family hell his best friend is on the payroll (John), It was only five years ago I ran a beautiful family campground with a three page waiting list. A store with fair prices that had to have two registers going just to keep up with all the demand. For most people it was the only way they could get on the lake for the weekend. I heard after I left the prices skyrocketed (have to pay for you new family somehow), all activates were canceled, and Toby left. The foreclosure of this campground will be the best thing for it. Having a person that cares want to be involved and likes people will be the best thing for the campers. To anyone thinking of buying this campground Charlie’s philosophy of do first ask permission later may prove to be very costly do your homework. Gold luck to all of the campers
    David Mason

  32. Mason 12 years ago June 9, 2009

    Former family of Charlie Smith.

    Reading this blog makes me feel sad for all the great campers and great memories we had at WWS campground in the years 2002-2003. All three of us knew it would only be a matter of time before everyone caught on to the nastiest person in the world. Charlie Smith has blood relatives that hate him and will never speak to him again. He has gone thru two families and I only hope he treats his current family better. I guess “what goes around comes around.” We have relocated and are loving the freedom and happiness of our family once again. Money can’t buy you happiness. “Nothing could be Finer in South Carolina!”
    We are all doing GREAT because we lost 300lbs- of Charlie Smith. LOL.

  33. former camper 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    Good for the Mason’s! They didn’t deserve to be with such a A–HOLE! Also why has no one mentioned Tony the silent partner. ( the dermatologist from Concord.) For all of you that don’t know John has been Charlies B-TCH for years but he’s no partner.

  34. john hardie 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    Obviously it is time to respond to all of the negative comments being expressed. Many sound like sour grapes, some are from campers who don’t think they they will be able to afford changes,and some are just resistant to inevitable change period.
    Since my integrity (something of utmost importance to me)is being questioned, I’m issuing a challenge to anyone who is writing these comments to confront me directly.I will not lie or cin
    cover up any information you wish to know. My cell phone # 6039866933. I’m also at site D2 in the campground.
    As a brief history history I would likke to remind campers of these facts:

    1. The present owners bought the campground in 1999 when most of the campers were totally upset with the owners at that time.
    2.The first change was to bring the septic systems to state required standards ($1.1 mil)
    3 The gate house Improvements and expansion were next($289 thou.)
    4 The marina store was renovated and expanded. Are the prices higher than Hannerfords? Of course. If you’re not buying bulk you can’t get bulk pricing.
    5 tThe owners fought for and recieved permitts for gasolene sales at the marina. T he installation was $480,000. The price of gas has always been $.50-60 cheaper than the rest of the lake.
    6. In the 2nd year of ownership a litlle boy drowned while at the docks. Although the campground was exonerated, we felt the docks were in adequate,so new ones were built, Engineering,state fees,material and labor-$315,000,
    7 A deal was made with Eastern Propane for campers to purchase propane through the campground at a small surcharge above what the owners pay. Most campers save $1.50-!.75 per gallon.
    8 The “dump area hes been relocated to prevent the bears from dragging trash through the woods.
    9 All the campground buildings are being painted this year.
    Who wants to challenge that no money has been spent on the facilty?
    As for activities, has anyone noticed the change in campground usage? The weekly number of campers has dropped by 50%(don’t tell me it’s unhappy campers). It makes planning for activities or hiring someone to run them almost impossible.
    From all the comments, we are aware of the conerns of the condo concersion. The survey showed a positive 53% in favor of the project albeit,not right now.

    For those of you of who are are applauding a change of ownship be fowarned:we believe we have all the elements in place to prevent the foreclosure sale. If the campground should be sold, then the new owners will most likley be the group that has tried to buy the campground the last sevweal years.
    Their plan is to discontinue everyones rental agreement at the end of the 2009 season. All new campers will be
    required to purchase a new park model,chosing from one of four styles, starting at $49.500
    A deposit of 20% will secure a rate of 9%for 15 years.
    This is on top of your site fees.They will probably trim all vegetation,pave all the roads,redisign
    each lot,and make the campground look like like a mobile home park.
    There will be no dirt bikes,four wheelers,or Golf Cart
    If anyone feels that the present owner ship is that bad then please have the bravery to confront me directly.
    I have not seen that Obamas’ stimulas package guarantees a campsite and boat slip.This is still AMERICA and its ok to make a pfofit with your busines, Wellfare doesn’t guarantee a campsite and an owner can make changes to his properpty as the constitution allows.
    Any questions or debate- contact me!!!

  35. Hardys a liar! 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    Just a pawn for Charlie Smith. I love the list you’ve written. Just an honest question- How many things on that list were done illegally? This is America should you do things like this?

  36. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    Yes, march right down to Hardie’s site and tell him what you think. And rest assured that being the fair minded, always with the “camper’s best interest in heart” Charlie & John will listen fairly to your concerns and lend an open ear.
    Not!
    I can only imagine the list these two goons are trying to formulate to wreak revenge on those that dare speak out. You’ll be out the campground gate before they have the time to jack up the prices at the camp store once again.
    I laugh at the docks comment. That whole fiasco was done illegally (like so much else) and cost campers weeks of down time with no compensation. I have been here 15 years, and the campground has never been in as much confusion, disrepair and represented by dishonesty as it is now. And yes John, my site is for sale, even though I will probably abandon it come summer’s end, as it is becoming common knowledge that the campground is going under and buyers are few & far between.
    But John let’s be honest here. You are an “owner” in the most minor sense of the word. Charlie Smith owns this place, lock, stock & barrel. You and Tony are only minor players, Charlie calls all the shots.
    And stop with the threats of the “mystery buyer” that will turn the world upside down. You and Charlie have earned the right to wear the badge of dishonor, to not be trusted either here or at the campground.
    If the shoe fits….wear it!
    Now, who wants to buy my site….CHEAP!

  37. b.s. on hardy 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    sewerage was mostly in place when you bought moron…..as far as the docks let me refresh your lousy memory…we were charged an extra 200.00 per dock supposedly for new docks..we paid this for 3 1/2 years b-4 we got the docks…do the math…144 docksx200x3 1/2….that wasnt charlies money it was ours and then when the docks were built they were moved to Dover…..by the by..charlies shoe is untied…why dont you hop on down and tie it for him…….B.S. mr hardie you have zero integrity

  38. WOW 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    First of all no one in their right mind is going to accept a challenge to speak with you when there is no trust, meaning exactly what mailbox 251 says, no one is going to take the chance of being thrown out of the park. Yes, this is America ” Freedom of Speech” and it obvious that at WWS this does not exist, you can see by the postings how un happy everyone is, there are many who probably are afraid to post here due to one of the owners finding out.
    As far a the survey stating 53% were in favor?? where are those numbers coming from?? who performed the survey?? It is quite obvious there were not 53 % in favor. We have spoken to just about everyone and there was ZERO that were in favor. Anyone can do a survey it is a matter of who is doing it, usually when something like this is done there is docmentation to back it up, we have seen nothing. As a matter of fact this is the first time anyone knew about the 53% so called in favor percentage. You should be able to read between the lines and realize that over 50% of the campers are not happy, you should send out a survey on this and you will find out the truth. This is not as you wrote ” Many sound like sour grapes, some are from campers who don’t think they they will be able to afford changes,and some are just resistant to inevitable change period”. If you believe this then there are more serious issues than before, some people will always put their two cents in, but take a look at the comments NO ONE said anything positive about what is going on, NO ONE has said anything positive about the owners. NO ONE has said anything positive about the condition of the park. You also mention that “The weekly number of campers has dropped by 50%(don’t tell me it’s unhappy campers)”. YES, read between the lines IT IS FROM UNHAPPY campers, people are going to different campgrounds, selling their units, I believe there are around 30 for sale now and the number grows each week, is this because campers are happy with the campground? I don’t think so..

    If that amount of money has been spent since 1999, taking into consideration how much money was made, this is a drop in the bucket and I would say that most likely that most of the work was mandated by the State, if not, it would have never been done all the other things you mention are part maintaining the park. What has been done recently over the past few years? Painting the buildings? Which from what we were told was done in exchange for site fees?

    Put together a survey without names or site numbers with input from other campers and you will see the response that you probably will not want to read, my bet is the majority will be negative, of course the campers should be allowed to view all the responses, which was not done prior. Provide what was actually used and how you came up with the 53% in favor of buying their sites, put together some sort of committee consisting of campers to review the results. This whole issue is from a lack of communication, there should have been a meeting from the begining with all the campers, a question and answer session. The so called surveys should have been made available so we could see that there were 53% interested. Surveys can be done in way to show positive or negitive depends on which way you want things to go. The up front way is to have other campers involved to over see the results, which was not done. I believe the 53% in favor results came from someone making phone calls to the campers and using their descretion to decide against/or in favor.

  39. hardie-har-har 12 years ago June 10, 2009

    by the way john..what happened to your family after you “hooked up with” sir charles…….those costs you mentioned are totally bogus…….while you are tying his shoe dont forget to kiss his ring..i believe its in his back pocket(thank you howie carr)