Condo Conversion Courts Controversy

Ossipee — June 14, 2009 — The planned conversion of Westward Shores Campground in West Ossipee into condominium units gained conditional town approval earlier this month but remains under attack by past and present campers, who have taken to posting comments online criticizing the proposal and campground management as they question the future of their beloved summer getaway.

Further complicating Westward Shores’ plans is a foreclosure notice posted in The Boston Globe on June 6. Listing the total assessed value at more than $6.2 million, the notice announced a public auction of the Ossipee Lake campground on July 10 at 11 a.m. However, as of press time, the auction was not listed on the James R. St. Jean Auctioneers Web site.

In a phone interview Tuesday, Westward Shores owner Charlie Smith called a foreclosure “unlikely” and would not comment further on the campground’s finances. By converting the campsites into condominium units, Westward Shores can offer campers the option to purchase an interest in the campground. The Ossipee Planning Board approved the first phase of the project — the conversion of the campground’s permanent structures (including the gatehouse, bathhouses, offices and marina) into six units — on May 5.

The second application asking to convert 251 campsites into condo units came before the board on June 2. Bryan Berlind of Land Tech, representing Westward Shores Condominium Campground, LLC, explained at the meeting that those purchasing an interest would not have a specific designated site. Instead, they would essentially purchase one of 251 mailboxes, allowing them to own rather than lease the right to vacation seasonally at the campground, moor their boats and use the public amenities and facilities.

On Tuesday, Smith said that camper interest facilitated the project, which would allow those who fix up and invest in their campsites to be rewarded. He had lost at least one camper to the converted Totem Pole Park in Freedom and collected 28 deposits on units
from interested campers during a short-lived summer pre-sale in May (the $500 deposits have since been refunded because of delays and the economy).

A waterfront lot would cost $59,900, with 20 percent down and 7 percent financing. According to Smith, this works out to be $18 less per month than Westward Shores campers currently pay. He added that with the housing market rebounding, the campground’s value would appreciate.

“It seems like a no-brainer to us,” said Smith.

But the project has seen some resistance from campers and Ossipee residents, which Berlind admitted in a brief interview on June 2.

“The word condominium scares people, and rightfully so,” he said. However, he explained the conversion as an added option for ownership, not a dramatic overhaul of the campground. One source of anxiety for residents as well as the planning board was whether a Westward Shores condominium association would attempt to overturn its agreement with the town to operate only on a seasonal basis.

This happened with Totem Pole Park in Freedom, a limited-facility campground on Ossipee Lake that converted in 1988. Fifteen years later, the park’s association pushed to extend its operation to 11 months a year; the Freedom Planning Board approved the application, revoked it due to residents’ protests the following year, then eventually accepted the change in 2005.

Critics believe such growth increases a campground’s burden on town resources, including schools, infrastructure and traffic control. However, Westward Shores will continue its normal operation schedule, operating from the first week of May through Oct. 15, then re-opening for winter camping the day before Thanksgiving and closing when the snow is gone.

Smith said he has no plans to expand his business beyond a seasonal, family campground. The planning board unanimously approved the condo conversion with safeguards to prevent the campsites from becoming permanent residences and conditions of state approval and a recommendation from West Ossipee Fire Chief Brad Eldridge. There were no comments from the public.

However, on the Ossipee Lake Alliance Web site, www.ossipeelake.org, former and present Westward Shores campers spoke out anonymously against the project, which they claimed was not motivated by camper demand but by dollar signs.

David Smith of the Ossipee Lake Alliance said the Web site hadn’t received so many comments since 2008, when two neighbors attempted to remove the Ossipee Lake webcam in Broad Bay. The Alliance itself, however, won’t be taking a side.

“We’re certainly concerned about any 200-plus acre campground on the lake that seems to be in financial trouble…. Other than that we have no opinion on the condo conversion,” he said on Tuesday.

More than 50 comments against the project have been posted on the site since June 2. Some campers claimed that they were not well informed by management (which has yet to hold an informational meeting), and the project was moving along quicker than anticipated. Others wrote that the campground’s fees and prices were high and its rules were strict, and that Smith rarely invested money in maintaining it.

As news of the foreclosure notice spread, comments became even more critical of Westward Shores’ management. Charlie Smith was confused by harsh comments, some of which were personal attacks, and continued to defend the conversion as a positive undertaking by a “pro-people” business.

“I don’t understand all the scuttlebutt out there about this thing. It’s really not bad,” he maintained. Of those posting comments, he added, “none of them would sign their names, and a lot of what they said was not true.” He also stressed that the campground strictly enforces its rules for a reason.

“We don’t want anybody getting hurt,” he said, adding, “We’ve got to protect the people who are there. But you can’t keep everybody happy, that’s implausible.”

Smith said rules restricting golf cart use are particularly unpopular, though most campgrounds don’t allow them at all. Westward Shores manager John Hardie believed the online backlash was caused by a lack of understanding and a fear of change.

“I don’t think they realize this is going to be a positive step… It’s not a ‘buy or get
out’ situation,” he said, noting his belief that the project will actually protect existing
seasonal campers from ever losing their place at Westward Shores.

“They think, ‘How much is this going to cost me?’ They don’t realize in the end it’s better for them.”

Hardie added that disgruntled former campers — booted from the family campground for drunk, unsafe or inappropriate behavior — could be behind some of the comments. He claimed that Smith has continuously upgraded the campground since purchasing Westward Shores in 1999.

Hardie said updates began with the sewer and water systems (which cost nearly $1 million to bring up to standard), and continued with work on the gatehouse/registration facility, dock, dump area, roads, playground and marina. Prices at the marina were realistic, he said, noting, “You don’t buy groceries in volume for a little tiny store, so naturally the prices are going to be higher,” and he claimed the marina’s gas prices are the cheapest on the lake.

As for the issue of communication, Smith said that campers were informed by email. Those that were at the campground the second week of May also received three written notices.

The Carroll County Independent obtained three emails sent to campers in May: One introducing the proposal and answering questions on May 12, a second sent on May 17 inviting campers to a May 23 informational meeting, and a third, sent four days later, canceling the meeting.

The final email explained that the campground’s attorney had not prepared all the necessary documents, a lender had “cold feet,” there were delays in the state approval process, and campers were hesitant to buy units because of the state of the economy. “For these reasons, we are going to proceed more slowly with the planned conversion,” it said. “There is no deadline to purchase and all escrowed deposits will be returned.”

But one Westward Shores camper of more than 15 years (who would speak only on the condition of anonymity) said the emails were not enough and the May 9 request for deposits was premature. “I would think just out of respect that [Smith] would talk to the campers first,” she said.

The May 12 email was the first she heard of the plans, which had already been before the Ossipee Planning Board. She doubted many seasonal campers were interested in ownership. “I don’t know of any camper who said they wanted to purchase their site,” she said, noting that even if a camper bought all 251 units, they would own only 17 percent of the campground — not enough to change fees or policies.

“Why do you buy something if you have absolutely no control and no say?”

She also questioned why Smith — after deciding to slow down the process — had continued seeking approval from the planning board without updating campers.

“It’s sort of like he’s going behind our backs…It just makes you suspicious, and you have to question that kind of behavior,” she said.

Still, she and her now-grown children hope to continue spending their summers at Westward Shores; like many campers, she’s adopting a “wait and see” attitude as the campground faces changes and a possible foreclosure.

“It’s a beautiful campground. We love it there and want it to stay the way it’s been,” she said. “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Leave it alone, except get better management.”

But Hardie argued that a foreclosure would be the worst scenario for longtime Westward Shores campers. He claimed the prospective buyer would more than likely kick all existing campers out, redesign the lots, pave the roads, and offer four new, standardized park models at a higher price and financing rate.

He said Smith, upon viewing the interested party’s other property, had refused to sell to this buyer in the past.

“It’s going to look like a mobile home park…So if people want a real camping experience, they should get behind Charlie,” said Hardie.

[Alliance Editor’s Note: All comments are welcome on this website, but please remember the basic rules of online posting. Name-calling is inappropriate and using capital letters to indicate screaming or anger doesn’t strengthen the message, it weakens it. Feel free to speak your mind, but please be respectful.

54 Comments

  1. Nora 12 years ago June 14, 2009

    I was very upset the other night when I read what was being said and was allowed to remain posted to the public on this site. It seems that personal attacks are deemed as acceptable behavior and almost as if they were being invited here just for that reason. No one bothered to have a discussion or ask questions about this conversion. They immediately jumped to conclusions and went on the attack. So far other then the person(s) who wrote the original statements and John Hardies response were the only things that even resembled being informative. You would think that if people were concerned about what was happening or about to happen at Westward Shores then they would see this place as an excellent resource to ask questions. I am sure that this forum could be a place to actually get something out on the table. However, I do not blame Charlie or his partner for ignoring this website. Who wouldnt? It is a shame that the fear of change would cause people to strike out like this without having any valid information to cause those fears. The only thing I can say to those of you who love camping on the lake and those of you who have a long history camping at WWS, is to calm down and take a few deep breaths. Ask questions and omit the personal attacks. I will not be the one to ask by the way. I am observing and I see that this forum could be put to good use. If you ask questions calmly, you just may get your answers.

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  2. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    The condo scheme was exposed for what it was when shortly after the initial idea was temporarily retractdd the foreclosure notice was posted. Form those of you that wish to track the auction online you can visit and register here at http://jsjauctions.com/details.asp?id=4836 and have them notify you of the auction status directly.

    This was simple. Many of us present campers have known for some time that Smith was struggling financially and using the campground to keep his other failing businesses, especially Sammy’s, afloat. It is no secret that people are leaving here in ever increasing numbers, or leaving their camps vacant and not paying their fees. Only a fool would not notice that maintenance and investment into the camp’s infrastructure was the last thing on Smith’s mind the last haff dozen years. The ever growing list of units for sale, with (in many cases) their give away prices, can be followed by going here: http://www.wwsonossipeelake.com/units%20forsale.html and perusing the list.

    Finally, the ultimate foreclosure of this campground will most likely be in mine, and my fellow campers best interest. Neither the investors nor any sane future owner would throw out over a hundered or more paying families. Any new owner is going to need the immediate cash flow of present campers to make the transaction viable. And hopefully the new owners will make the necessary financial investment to return this campground to its former glory.

    This scheme was hatched so that Smith could produce new and immediate positive financial data to his creditors to hang on to his cash cow. My prediction? Charlie will cobble together a scheme to forestall foreclosure through the summer, so that he can rake in as much cash as possible. However, once the summer season comes to a close that deal will also crumble as many of us refuse to pay anymore until we see the ultimate outcome. This will result in the eventual foreclosure and new owners coming aboard.

    And that day can come none to soon for us left standing!

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  3. more & more facts 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    it is common knowledge in the campground that only one family put up the deposit and not the 28 continually claimed to by management. and still no direct contact with the campers this weekend over this mess. the mood in the campground this weekend with the few people that showed up was very sad and much confusion. but thank you to mark d. who just keeps his head and soes what he can with what little he has been give. oh and everyone knows that “nora” is really “jewels”. we are not fools here in the campground just customers that want to be treated fairly and with respect!

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  4. stillnoanswers 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    There has still been no communication between Campers and Management. No emails to the campers, no meeting scheuduled to discuss this situation at hand. The campers are worried, confused and just want some answers to the many questions they have. Let’s get a few things straight:
    Opening weekend campers were given three pieces of paper that stated that the campground was going Condo and only gave you a two week period to give a deposit.
    Once word spread an email was sent out with the attached paper work as most campers where unaware of this change.
    A second email was then sent out with a inviation to a meeting, which was then followed up by the third email cancelling the meeting. That’s all there is to the emails!
    Also, this article states that waterfront property is listed for $59,900. Not quite, that is for a wooded inland site. Waterfront starts at $174,000.00

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  5. hey nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    Hey Nora,
    It is clear that you do not know the facts. By all means feel free to come on here and defend your friends, but you have to understand that we the campers also have the right to defend. I think that you should be the one calming down and taking a deep breath. You have absolutely no right to call anyone “just a nail banger”, the campground is full of blue collared workers who are self employed “nail bangers”, painters, plasterer’s, electricians, plumbers, the list goes on. These “nail bangers” help pay your friends bills, through all their hard work. Do they want to know why there was such a quick sketchy plan to go condo followed by a foreclosure notice in the Boston Globe – yes they do and still that answer has not been answered. If you were the one handing over between $4,000.00 – $9,000.00 a year, you too would want some answers, and good luck getting them!

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  6. Nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    Posted by: Hey Nora,
    It is clear that you do not know the facts. By all means feel free to come on here and defend your friends, but you have to understand that we the campers also have the right to defend. I think that you should be the one calming down and taking a deep breath. You have absolutely no right to call anyone “just a nail banger”, the campground is full of blue collared workers who are self employed “nail bangers”, painters, plasterer’s, electricians, plumbers, the list goes on. These “nail bangers” help pay your friends bills, through all their hard work. Do they want to know why there was such a quick sketchy plan to go condo followed by a foreclosure notice in the Boston Globe – yes they do and still that answer has not been answered. If you were the one handing over between $4,000.00 – $9,000.00 a year, you too would want some answers, and good luck getting them!<<<

    As I stated earlier, I was angry when I responded last week. I should have held my "tongue" until I had calmed down. Just so you know, I am a blue collar worker and come from a long line of construction workers and fisherman. I have a great amount of respect for people in those trades. I threw that out as a way to express that I felt that box251 was talking about business and finance without having any knowledge of what it takes to run one. I apologize if I have offended anyone.

    Charlie has a saying that he oftens uses whenever a situtation starts to get out of hand. He always reminds me to stay calm and that calmer heads will prevail. I think about that and hear his words in times like this.

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  7. Nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    Box251 stated: This scheme was hatched so that Smith could produce new and immediate positive financial data to his creditors to hang on to his cash cow. My prediction? Charlie will cobble together a scheme to forestall foreclosure through the summer, so that he can rake in as much cash as possible. However, once the summer season comes to a close that deal will also crumble as many of us refuse to pay anymore until we see the ultimate outcome. This will result in the eventual foreclosure and new owners coming aboard<<<

    I hope you do realize that what you are suggesting or proposing that other campers do in order to force Charlie into foreclosure is against the law.

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  8. Nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    More and more facts wrote: it is common knowledge in the campground that only one family put up the deposit and not the 28 continually claimed to by management. and still no direct contact with the campers this weekend over this mess. the mood in the campground this weekend with the few people that showed up was very sad and much confusion. but thank you to mark d. who just keeps his head and soes what he can with what little he has been give. oh and everyone knows that “nora” is really “jewels”. we are not fools here in the campground just customers that want to be treated fairly and with respect!<<<<<<

    Dear fact finder: Funny how I keep hearing that no meeting was held and no facts have been presented yet you claim there are facts and common knowledge in that campground. What you are really saying is that more and more rumors are spreading and it has become what you consider common knowledge. I dont know if you will remember me but I worked at the store last Summer. Jules is my best friend. Her family is my family. I hope you can appreciate a person who stands by their family? Especially when I can see that many who post here have tid bits of misinformation and have no insight into the truth of the matter.

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  9. Nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    Posted by Still no answers:
    The campers are worried, confused and just want some answers to the many questions they have. Let’s get a few things straight:
    Opening weekend campers were given three pieces of paper that stated that the campground was going Condo and only gave you a two week period to give a deposit.
    Once word spread an email was sent out with the attached paper work as most campers where unaware of this change.<<<

    You hit the nail on the head. People are worried, confused and want answers. I can understand that. I can also understand that given the current state of minds and the obvious anger that is coming out here that there will be a need to formulate and disclose a plan in order to clear up the confusion. I rather doubt that any business plans or details will be posted here in public. I am guessing that as more solid info of this plan becomes available that the campers will be notified in more detail in private.

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  10. more & more facts 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    ok nore then i do remember you now if you truly are who you claim to be. you were the older woman in the store with the very nasty attitude towards a number of campers and children in particular. i hope that smith does not allow you back in the store this summer as you will cost him a lot of business with the negative attitude you expressed towards campers in your other posts and your attitude last year. were you the one that was selling the cigarettes under the counter? i know that is illegal! but i still am not convinced you are not the “jewels” or “jewels” must be feeding you all your misinformation. maybe you can hold a campers conference at the store so you can tell us everything your not telling us with your cryptic posts here?

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  11. Nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    More and more facts wrote:
    ok nore then i do remember you now if you truly are who you claim to be. you were the older woman in the store with the very nasty attitude towards a number of campers and children in particular. i hope that smith does not allow you back in the store this summer as you will cost him a lot of business with the negative attitude you expressed towards campers in your other posts and your attitude last year. were you the one that was selling the cigarettes under the counter? i know that is illegal! but i still am not convinced you are not the “jewels” or “jewels” must be feeding you all your misinformation. maybe you can hold a campers conference at the store so you can tell us everything your not telling us with your cryptic posts here?<<<

    No I am not that person. I had a wonderful Summer there and made a lot of friends. I also often took money out of my own pocket to cover the kids when they were short on money and wanted to buy some candy like their friends were getting. I did the same for adults who came in and discovered that they had walked all the way down to the store and forgot their money. I trusted them and they always came back later to repay me. There are a lot of good people that camp there. I do miss them.

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  12. Renee 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    To those writing disparaging comments, you are harming the value of our campers more then Charlie. For those who are trying to sell a few keystrokes on google will end perspective buyers. Yes, capital improvements could be made and yes the rules due seem to apply to some (like why can my deck only be 8 feet and others 15 feet wide) and not to others but in general I think the rules are enforced reasonably. One of the reasons we love it so much on the weekends is because of the little flexibility in the rules that are given us for the good, and the bad. Go visit some of the other places like Danforth and see the list of DO’s and Don’s never mind when you sell your trailer the site doesn’t go with it. Charlie and his crew can be a bit fickle but all campground owners can, I think it is part of the job description. Could they take time to listen to us and make improvements, absolutely BUT from what I’ve seen with activates they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don’t. Since many people go out on the lake all day, the daytime activates are pretty mutt but I’m sure with some constructive suggests and a commitment for people to actually attend, more activates would become available. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen them do planed functions in the past few years and hardly anyone showed. As for Charlie as the person well we all have our issues and faults but I can say when my husband was deployed in the war and a seasonal site opened up Charlie VOLUNTEERED to go and get my camper, a 2 hour away drive (4 hours round trip), he brought it up to my site and set it up. He could have charged us, he could have just gone to another person to give the sight to but he didn’t.

    Since we have been at WWS and have only twice been spoken to, once was justified and once well it was a miscommunication. We keep our site clean; we don’t hold wild parties and we respect the facilities. We love WWS, and hope that when people post things they say the good with the bad because we are VERY fortunate to have a place on the lake to go at a pretty reasonable price. No there is no pool, no miniature golf course, no Harry the Clown performances but there is a relaxed, fun, casual atmosphere that we can escape to. Oh and thanks Mark for the great job and for always having a kind smile!

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  13. Nora 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    Renee stated: Charlie VOLUNTEERED to go and get my camper, a 2 hour away drive (4 hours round trip), he brought it up to my site and set it up. He could have charged us, he could have just gone to another person to give the sight to but he didn’t.<<<

    Thank you for sharing this. This is the Charlie that I know and love.

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  14. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    As of 4:00 PM today, according to the auctioneer, the auction is still on for July 10th. Apparently Smith has still not put together a temporary deal to at least hold on to the campground through the summer. But if true to form, he’ll cobble together a last minute deal like has has had to do in the past to keep Sammy’s afloat (check it out Nora, that’s a matter of public record and a solid fact). Of course in the past he has used WWS as collateral for Sammy’s. Question is, where is the collateral coming for Sammy’s and how long will it hold out? By the way, first weekend of MC week and the campground was dead, both of seasonal and temporary campers. Wasn’t so long ago that MC weekend saw the seasonals at full capacity with many paying guests and all the temporary sites filled with MC enthusiasts. Too bad, Smith really needs that cash right now! And I need to foot traffic to sell my grossly underpriced “trash” camper!

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  15. Observer 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    Samantha’s Inn has been nominated for a Business Champion Award. This award goes to businesses that have shown support to the child care professionals/community. This award was given because Charlie Smith donates the function room at no cost for child care seminars, and does so periodically.
    Samantha’s Inn and Charlie Smith donated employees time at least 500 hours or more and equipment for 3 Snow cross events at Mount Whittier , to benefit the GOACC. This included many donations from free rooms, food and equipment to making this whole event come together. This event alone in the past 3 years has brought huge revenue into the Ossipee Valley during the slow winter months. Hotels in the area were being booked solid and local business such as restaurants and small stores generated income from the event.
    Charlie Smith donated dinner for all the GOACC volunteers in 2008 and in 2009 provided a dinner again at a low cost because the economy was hurting everyone.
    Charlie Smith donated the land in Center Ossipee for Ossipee Main Street Project. The success of this project was because of local business and non-business people coming together to make the Ossipee Valley a great place to live.
    Samantha’s Inn and Charlie Smith donate space for local and state snowmobile clubs to gather and hold their meetings. This was all for the betterment of the community because he understands the importance of business to business relationships.
    Sammy’s fitness center provides substantial discounted prices to police, fire and emergency personnel memberships
    He continuously donates to local charities and non profit events.
    I have personally witnessed Charlie Smith silently help families in need. I have seen him give work to people that needed money and I have seen him quietly extend his hand to people who are down and out. This was not for monetary value nor was it for recognition it was because he does care.
    The camp ground before Charlie was dismal, there were no flowers, no street signs, hardly a store and the playground was nothing to speak of.
    Charlie made the communal area’s much prettier, with flowers, cute street signs so people know where they are going, the store is awesome, there is gas again on the main lake, the gate building is presentable, it use to be a run down trailer, and then about 4 years before Charlie bought it the old owners put up just a small building Charlie added to it and made it look nice. He enlarged the playground; bathrooms are ten times better and cleaner. I just thought that something’s are not always as they appear and it should be noted.

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  16. PastWWS 12 years ago June 15, 2009

    I was at WWS for several years, and it will always hold a special place in my heart. I hope someone respectable buys the place and turns it around.
    I can not resist one comment from a previous post.
    Nora wrote “I hope you do realize that what you are suggesting or proposing that other campers do in order to force Charlie into foreclosure is against the law.” pleaseeee, when was the last time you so someone arrested for not paying a bill?

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  17. Nora 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    # PastWWS at 11:45 pm on June 15th, 2009

    I was at WWS for several years, and it will always hold a special place in my heart. I hope someone respectable buys the place and turns it around.
    I can not resist one comment from a previous post.
    Nora wrote “I hope you do realize that what you are suggesting or proposing that other campers do in order to force Charlie into foreclosure is against the law.” pleaseeee, when was the last time you so someone arrested for not paying a bill?<<<

    No but I have heard of people being arrested for willfull breach of contract and theft of services through fraudulent means.

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  18. why cant we all just get along 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    ok folks heres my comments to nora and anybody else who wants to say we received information about this whole thing.we all come on opening happy as a camper (no pun intended) and we get this lousy 3 pcs of paper that really told us nothing.But everybody that was in a great mood turned into a somber mood real quick.WHY CANT CHARLIE OR HIS PARTNER HOLD A MEETING AT THE PAVILLION AND ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS FOR US,THATS ALL IT WOULD TAKE.then all the negativity will maybe then go away.when people hear stuff through the grapevine that upsets everyone,and thats whats happening.and to say we cant hold our money from charlie and force him into foreclosure sure we can.I am NOT and I mean NOT handing over any money to wws for the 2010 season until I know we have a place to go……..But I will put charlies money into an escrow account and then we cant get in trouble for not paying (NORA). what if we pay like we always do and show up next year and the front gate house is closed and our gate keys dont work and charlie is long gone with our money how would that make all us scum bag nail bangers feel.I am willing to go speak to a attorney and see what our rights are if any body else is on board to lower the cost for me please email me and let me know if you have any thing else in mind. my email address is yfatboy69@yahoo.com.maybe if we get our own attorney involved we just might get somewhere.thanks for all the great postings, and NORA if you dont even live there and pay charlie any money why dont you just mind your own business and stay out of ours…

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  19. more & more facts 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    good points “why cant we all just get along” make. heres the deal if you pay in september for next year and shortly thereafter the campground is foreclosed on the new owners do not irepeat do not have to honor the contract you has with the old WWS and can throw you out or make you pay all over again! anyone that pays in september under these conditions is just plain crazy and you are right “why cant we all just get along” i aint payin a dime in september and i know some of other campers i talked with this weekend are sayin the same thing!

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  20. Friend of a Camper 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    In reading all of these posts again today and over the weekend, it appears that it still goes back to lack of communication and lack of trust for both sides, in which case, there can never be a successful resolution. From the reports in the paper, and the statements from the Auctioneer, it also sounds like Mr. Smith and his partners truly aren’t sure what the outcome will be for WWS, therefore, can’t honestly answer camper’s questions. We are living in scary economical times, with the stock market taking another hit for 186 points yesterday…people are losing their jobs left and right, great long-standing American companies are shutting their doors forever…homes are being foreclosed on and families are being forced into the street. I can guarantee that all of the people who have been affected by all of these losses did not know what was coming until it hit them in the face, because the actions behind the scenes were not figured out. I’m sure Mr. Smith is walking this same tight rope now. I hardly doubt it is his wish to lose WWS, believe me, if that happens, he is taking a huge financial loss. And as far as all of the negativity on this board, remember you get more with sugar and honey than with vinegar and sour grapes. Certainly Mr. Smith would not be inclined to to reach out to his campers when it seems most of you have nothing kind to say about him, his family, and his business partners. And as to the last poster who asks Nora to mind her own business and stay out of yours…let me just say that whatever happens to WWS remains the business of everyone who lives in Ossipee. The town will be deeply impacted in any outcome, whether it be turning into condos, foreclosure, or status quo. Every resident (seasonal or not) has a stake in what happens with this property, it’s just unfortunate that obviously those who will be most personally affected are those who have are current tenants of WWS. Again, I wish you all nothing but the best in the outcome.

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  21. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    Just called the auctioneer, the auction is still on schedule. So yet once again we are deceived by the owner. Remember several weeks ago we were told that this was nothing but a misunderstanding, that everything had been taken care of and that this auction was never supposed to be posted? Now we find that the campground is in serious arrears with the mortgage and town taxes, the auction is on and the owner is trying to put a “deal” in place to hold on to the Park! Why can’t the owner have a meeting with us, answer our questions directly and to our faces, and just plain and simply be honest with us for a moment?

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  22. Thankful 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    I think that all you disgruntled campers should go back to Massachusetts and see if Teddy Kennedy can place you in a tax free campground with no fees. Or better yet maybe Obama can hand you over some stimulus money and you can invest in a camper on Revere Beach. I have heard that its a nice family atmosphere there, the only catch is you can’t bring your golf cart.

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  23. Thankful-not 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    Why don’t you “New Hampshire resident” drive down to Mass, make the big money and then drive back home. Maybe you should be buying on Revere beach and putting some money back into our towns! I bet these campers wish they had bought on Revere Beach rather than being involved in this mess!

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  24. Thankful 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    Big dirty union money hand outs from Massachusetts are of no interest to me. I like the simplicity of community and genuine caring people. I like the fact that we care about our state and are not running away from it but trying to live in a simple atmosphere. Oh by the way next time you go back home bring your garbage with you, I am tired of picking it up on the side of the road.

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  25. why cant we all just get along 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    If you look at most of the license plates at wws they all come from massachusetts so if it wasnt for them this place would have gone down hill a long time ago…..and like I said earlier the same thing everyone else has been saying why cant charlie and his partner have a meeting at his beautiful pavillion(that doesnt get used due to lack of activity funds)and maybe all these hostile comments will go away and positive ones might start rolling in……charlie is shooting himself in the foot cause some of these campers might just have some good ideas for him to keep wws.THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  26. Thankful 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    In any given market a gap will be filled……….don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back.

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  27. Hank 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    “I think that all you disgruntled campers should go back to Massachusetts and see if Teddy Kennedy can place you in a tax free campground with no fees.”

    I thought we were the ones who were supposed to pony up thousands of dollars to fend off bankruptcy for a local who has been thin with details?

    “Big dirty union money hand outs from Massachusetts are of no interest to me.”

    Unless it’s bailing out WWS in a sketchy condo scheme, right? Or buying beer, potato chips, and gas. Or paying for the schools and roads.

    “I like the simplicity of community and genuine caring people.”

    As long as they don’t genuinely care about bad things, like unions, people from Massachusetts, black presidents of the United States, etc.

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  28. WOW 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    If all the campers got togehter we could purchase the property at a fraction of what the condo prices that were offered to us.
    Do the math, if you could buy your water site for say 60K, lagoon sites for 40K and wooded sites for 25K would you buy it? The people intersted in spending the money would be owners of the campground, those who opted not to invest would continue to pay a seasonal fee which would pay for the taxes etc.
    If 20 people on the water invested it would generate 1.2 million

    If 20 lagoon people invested it would generate 800,000

    If only 100 people with wooded sites invested in would generate 2.5 million
    That is over 4 million dollars, should be enough to buy it.

    If the 140 people put up 357.00 that would cover the 50K to be able to bid at the auction.

    Depending on what the sale price is everyone would have to put up an additional 10% of the selling price that have to be paid within 10 days after the auction.

    The final payment would be withing 45 days after that.

    The 140 people would be owners of the park, we would put together a Board of Directors.

    You would basically own your site and not pay a seasonal fee.

    Everyone would pay a yearly fee, maybe 500.00 to put in an escrow for repairs, improvements.
    etc
    Remember the remaining 110? sites would continue to pay seasonal fees, depending on what their seasonal fee is would generate between 350-400K a year. This does not include winter camping, income from the store, gas or dock rentals.

    Just a thought for those 53% who were in favor of buying a mailbox, this would cost you less than half the price, no more seasonal fees and you would be an owner.

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  29. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    Excellent idea WOW, except for one significant fly in the ointment. Management took out a 7 million dollar note against WWS! That’s correct, 7 million dollars excluding past due taxes and any other notes we are not aware of against the property. Not sure if the creditors will take a 3 million dollar loss, even in this economy. That is why the foreclosure is all but a certainty, either in July or by the fall. Management is just way too upside down with this campground with no plan to turn things around, and the economic downturn sounding the death knell of current ownership.Too many years of neglect, a poor business model and abuse of current and past campers have finally taken the ultimate toll. But let us all look at the bright side, the eventual new owners can take us no where but up! Since there is no way I can sell my “trash trailer” (or move it, with it’s attached room) I can’t afford to be anything but optomistic of what new ownership will bring.

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  30. why cant we all just get along 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    I dont know if thats true about the new owners taking us up,does anybody know our legal rights.can they evict us in 30 days,like an apartment? thats why earlier I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking to an attorney with me to find out all of this and what our rights are we could al hire a attorney to represent us because I think some illegal is going on and I do believe we have a class action law suit.thats why I left my email address.let me know

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  31. Friend of a Camper 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    First of all, what in God’s name does where we all live have to do with anything? More than 50% of the lakefront ownership in Ossipee and Freedom are seasonal and come from out of state…many from Massachusetts, but also some from Connecticut, New Jersey, and Maine. And I’m sorry, although I am not a camper at WWS, as I have said in my many previous posts, I pay higher taxes in the town of Ossipee for my “seasonal” home than I do for my year-round home in Massachusetts. Second of all, I’m damn proud of all that “Teddy” Kennedy has done for our state, has he made many mistakes along the way, you bet he has, But let me tell you, he’s the first one to advocate for the most neediest of citizens of state, the elderly, disabled and handicapped, and the children and families who don’t have the good fortune we all have to even have a summer home to come to. New Hampshire’s politicians have done a great job in the state haven’t they? That’s why Dodds is now in prison. Politics has nothing to do with this. And “Thankful” as far as being tired of picking up our trash on the side of the road, funny, doesn’t WWS have it’s own trash pick up? Why would they be throwing their trash on the side of the road? Like I said, the more negativity that continues to flow through this website, the more difficult it will ever be to remedy the situation.

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  32. why cant we all just get along 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    to wow: I think that is a excellent idea if we all pitch in and own it ourselves.and then all of the seasonal fees we would get and winter camping fees,and all the empty spots for tenters we could just make them seasonal spots too, and all that would work out just perfect.and out of all the new purchasers they, could do the maintainance to keep the place up to par and it wouldnt cost us a thing.and as someone quoted earlier there are alot of carpenters,plumbers,electricians,etc.I think we would need to speak to a real estate attorney.but for now we need to do a title search to see if their are any liens on the property.I have a very good realestate friend and she said the bank would absolutely take a loss like that cause as long as they own it they would have to pay the taxes and any maintanence on the place.lets get a head count and see if we could do this.if the bank knew we wanted to do this and had no other perspective buyers they would give us alittle bit of time to get our ducks in a row.

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  33. WOW 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    I agree that the Bank will take a loss, especially if will be paying then cash for the property, they know in this economy they are not going to recoup all of their money. Having the property sit there does no one any good, I believe the Bank is out of Washington so they probably know nothing about the property.
    Someone needs to get a head count on who is interested, seriously interested, money talks and we need a commitment.
    Once we get a head count then we can put some firm numbers together, I am sure everyone will want to know exactly how much they will have to pay. The numbers I mentioned will probably work if we get the commitment of the 144 people..
    LETS DO IT!!!!!!!

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  34. Nancy 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    I have set here for a week and tried to “mind my own business” but I can’t do it anymore. Further more this is more my businrss than you know. Charlie Smith and company has a product- you are consumers and you purchase the product ,simple as that. If you are a regular consumer of your neighborhood pizza parlor and they run across hard times to you spend all your free time personally bashing the owner like a bunch of 12 years old? If that pizza parlor decides to change into an ice cream parlor ,is that any of your business?
    I can not believe that grown human beings are acting like this. What makes you all feel entitled to a campsite that you merely rent? If you rent an apartment and decide to build on an addition who is the smart one. That property does not now and never has belonged to any of you!!!!! YOU RENT a campsite on which to put a camper on someone else’s property. If you want to BUY a piece of the lake than take out a mortgage and buy your own camp make the improvements and maintain it as you will. Good luck for 3200.00 a year! Do you know what people spend on the lakes around here just to RENT a camp for one week? In many cases as much as you pay for a season.
    My husband was born and bred in this area and I have lived here most of my life . We will never be able to afford a place on any of these bodies of water. Shouldn’t we be entitled.? We chose to live here for the quality of life and have no regrets.You people are fortunate to have the ability to have a place here yet you think you are so entitled. If you don’t like it don’t come back every year.
    I know you are all frightened. Isn’t everyone in this economy.? When most of us are worrying about keeping our primary home your foolishniss seems laughable.
    For all your assumptions and your gossip none of you really know what is going on.Mailbox 251 is obviously a disgruntled camper and I am sure he thinks he has a reason. However he is a dangerous man. He has virtously encited an online riot with his half truths and allegations. If he really were on the inside in the all-knowing place he pretends to be he would know Charlie and John a lot better and know that they are decent caring people that do not deserve this slander!!! Perhaps you have never seen this side of them but I doubt you have honestly seen the beastly side that you try to potrait.
    Believe me there are many facts about this siutuation that less than a handleful of people know about and quite frankly it is none of your business.
    When Charlie has something concrete to tell any of you ,you will be the first to know.Meanwhile stop acting like a lynch mob and act like adults!!!! You should all be ashamed of yourself!!!!

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  35. Watchful Eye 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    To Nancy – the dangerous person is John with his threats of violence (guns and bombs) and “Nora” with threatening to set the trailers on fire and calling the blue collar trades people “nail bangers with no brains”.
    This all could have been avoided had Charlie been honest from the beginning. A simple letter to the campers stating the financial condition of the campground, and with a meeting of the minds, who knows, maybe there would have been a resolution by now. The clamming up, except by threatening the campers, obviosly has gone nowhere. The campers keep asking for a meeting, but to no avail.So who are the adults and who are not?
    I wouldn’t want to buy a mailbox for $60,0000. These peple have already invested $3200 (at least) this year. How would you like to lose that.
    I am no longer a camper there, (can no longer afford it) but have always enjoyed it. I’m glad I have no money invested.

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  36. horesfeathers 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    Gotta love that Nancy! Charlie has nothing “concrete” you say? Then why in hell did he launch this condo scheme if he has nothing “in concrete”? One consistent thread through and through when it comes to the Charlie defenders. They are lonnnnng on rhetoric but come up short with any answers. As for mailbox251, I have checked out some of his claims and found them all to be true! There is a 7 million dollar loan, easily verified with a five minute internet search. Town Hall confirmed that WWS is tens of thousands of dollars in arrears in property taxes. The auction, as of 3:00 pm today, is still scheduled for July 10th. So when it comes to credibility mailbox 251 and several others are batting 1000, while Smith & crew keep striking out at the plate!

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  37. why cant we all just get along 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    wow: lets do it, lets take a head count I am in.,so do you want to keep count or do you want me 2.people can email me at yfatboy69@yahoo.com only if they want to do it , if they dont then no need to email me.do you think thats a good idea.let me know.THAT WAY CHARLIES POSSE WONT KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL IS CAUSE IT WILL BE IN MY EMAIL AND N.OT HERE……..

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  38. a camper 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    I cant wait to go to camp Friday and wake up and have a cup of coffee with toush..

    What eva!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  39. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    As of the close of business today the auction remains scheduled for July 10th with the auctioneer e-mailing all potential buyers with the latest information on the scheduled foreclosure sale.

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  40. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 16, 2009

    Thank you WOW for that link to the flyer. People need to read the flyer very carefully, as not only are the property and buildings for sale, but all personal property of the mortgagor is also up for grabs. So, if in the next week or two you start to see the campground’s equipment, boats, tools etc. mysteriously “disappearing” you will now know why!

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  41. BODY MAN 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    ALL I KNOW FOR NOW IS THAT MARK IS DOING A GREAT
    JOB TAKING CAR OF THE CAMP GROUNDS HE IS ALWAYS DOING
    HIS JOB TO KEEP THE PLACE LOOKING GREAT.AND CHARLIE
    IS LUCKY TO HAVE SOME ONE LIKE HIM.HE BETTER HOPE MARK DOSENT JUMP
    SHIP ON HIM.I AM A CAMPER AT WWS AND I LOVE IT HERE AND HOPE
    TO BE STAYING FOR A LONG TIME.THIS WILL ALL WORK OUT YOU WILL SEE

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  42. Nora 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Watchful Eye posts: To Nancy – the dangerous person is John with his threats of violence (guns and bombs) and “Nora” with threatening to set the trailers on fire and calling the blue collar trades people “nail bangers with no brains”.<<<<

    What a joke and a good example of how some are taking other people words and twisting them around. First of all I said that I would love to pull those crappy trailers out of the campground and then pile up all the additions and decks that were left behind set them on fire and have a huge weenie roast. I was being sarcastic in response to those of you who were discussing leaving the WWS and selling your trailers. I was also responding to another poster who made a good point in that if you were to pull those trailers off the lots and try to sell them elsewhere you would take a huge loss. They are worth far more sitting right where they are.

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  43. Hank 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    “I can not believe that grown human beings are acting like this. What makes you all feel entitled to a campsite that you merely rent? If you rent an apartment and decide to build on an addition who is the smart one. That property does not now and never has belonged to any of you!!!!! YOU RENT a campsite on which to put a camper on someone else’s property.”

    He’s asking people to buy their sites. He’s looking for hard cash for people to BUY – not rent – their sites. That’s why people are asking questions.

    Yet he, and his defenders here, are very short on details; no mention of the $7 million note, or the tax arrears, no explanation for why the place is still scheduled to go to auction – nothing.

    Worse, instead of answering these obvious questions, his supporters respond with personal attacks about people feeling entitled, being childish, and/or being “rich people” from out of state. No mention of the details of the sale, the tax arrears, the debt on the property, or the coming auction – just name-calling.

    It’s exactly the same thing the marina’s supporters do every time someone points out that it’s violating the law or yet another court order: call people names, make it “us vs. them,” and hope no one realizes who’s being asked to foot the bill, and where the money is going.

    Reasonable questions anyone would ask about this proposed condo conversion are being responded to with hysterical attempts to change the subject by personalizing the issue – that’s a bad sign. Run for the hills, folks – this is a classic attempt to raise cash quickly to bail out a business in trouble.

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  44. Cheryl 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Why doesn’t one of you in the forum set up a meeting of all campers next weekend in the main building and invite the owners to join? You can spread the word here and through the email list. If the owner joins you, you can ask questions. If he doesn’t, you will be able to discuss strategies for the possibility that the auction takes place and there’s a new owner.

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  45. iscreamyouscream 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    I just needed to point out that there is a huge difference between buying and ice cream and handing over $3,000.00 – $8,5000 a year. Yes we are only consumers, consumers that trusted the owner to put there money where it belongs, “PAYING THE CORRECT BILLS”. If THAT was done in the first place there would be none of this going on. Yes we only rent these places, we are well aware that we do not own the land they sit on and you are now well aware that NOBODY ever wanted to own (a mailbox!) We CHOSE to put rooms on our trailers, plant flowers redo our fire pits, put up decorative fences, add pea stone to our sites (all profit for Charlie) buy wood from the wood guy (more profit for Charlie) bring guests up and pay for them to stay there (more profit for Charlie), fill up our boats at the Marina (there are other gas stations on the lake) again more profit for Charlie. By doing these things and making our places “feel” like our summer homes, we not only added the value to them, but added to the value of WWS, by keeping them clean we helped sell more seasonals through the years, once again more profit for Charlie!

    We chose to trust this man and it’s truly a far cry from trusting that your going to get served the wrong flavor of ice cream! I have a hard time believing that anyone out there can actually bash us campers for coming into a campground, that we do pay alot of money for, no it’s definately not a mortgage, but it’s still alot of money any way you look at it. Money that right now looks to have only benefited your friend.

    The quick rush to turn condo, followed by a foreclosure notice has raised many concerns. Were the owners trying to make a quick buck before the foreclosure happened? This has still not been answered and only raises more suspicions. No Charlie is not going to come on this website and give out information, but he does have our email addresses and phone numbers and they have there own website that information could be posted on, it seemed real easy to have three pieces of paper ready to hand out opening weekend, why not hand out a paper explaing the situation at hand. The LACK of communication is just unbelievable.

    I’m sure he does not feel like he owes us anything because we do not own, but if it was not for us campers through the years, paying our bills that were due, Charlie would not have been able to buy his new beautiful million dollar home or the escalades his family drives. A little compassion here for the people who have chosen to pay there bills and only trust someone to do the same!

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  46. Watchful Eye 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Hey Nora – to you and yours: Do the right thing for a change, instead of trying to defend your negative actions and words.

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  47. WOW 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Reply to the email below if interested in being an owner, don’t miss you opportunity as of 1100pm last night there were 20 people in. The number is growing, this can be done we need more people. OPPORTUNITY KNOCKS!!!!!

    If all the campers got togehter we could purchase the property at a fraction of what the condo prices that were offered to us.
    Do the math, if you could buy your water site for say 60K, lagoon sites for 40K and wooded sites for 25K would you buy it? The people intersted in spending the money would be owners of the campground, those who opted not to invest would continue to pay a seasonal fee which would pay for the taxes etc.

    If 20 people on the water invested it would generate 1.2 million

    If 20 lagoon people invested it would generate 800,000

    If only 100 people with wooded sites invested in would generate 2.5 million
    That is over 4 million dollars, should be enough to buy it.

    If the 140 people put up 357.00 that would cover the 50K to be able to bid at the auction.

    Depending on what the sale price is everyone would have to put up an additional 10% of the selling price that have to be paid within 10 days after the auction.

    The final payment would be withing 45 days after that.

    The 140 people would be owners of the park, we would put together a Board of Directors.

    You would basically own your site and not pay a seasonal fee.

    Everyone would pay a yearly fee, maybe 500.00 to put in an escrow for repairs, improvements.
    etc
    Remember the remaining 110? sites would continue to pay seasonal fees, depending on what their seasonal fee is would generate between 350-400K a year. This does not include winter camping, income from the store, gas or dock rentals.

    Just a thought for those 53% who were in favor of buying a mailbox, this would cost you less than half the price, no more seasonal fees and you would be an owner.

    lets do it, lets take a head count I am in.,so do you want to keep count or do you want me 2.people can email me at yfatboy69@yahoo.com only if they want to do it , if they dont then no need to email me.do you think thats a good idea.let me know.THAT WAY CHARLIES POSSE WONT KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL IS CAUSE IT WILL BE IN MY EMAIL AND N.OT HERE

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  48. Friend of a Camper 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Dear Wow,
    Just wanted to say before you jump into the idea of coming together as a group to purchase the property, even at at reduced prices from the original condo prices, remember where the economy is today and that there is not one bank out there who is going to give a $3 million, or more, mortgage to a group of you. If only it was that easy. You are not going to each be able to buy a site, the property is going to need to sell as a whole to someone who is qualified to carry a note that large, and if and when that happens, that person or persons would then have to start the entire petition to the state and town all over again to sell individual sites as a condo establishment. And considering this is “commercial property” obtaining a mortgage to cover the auction cost, or out right cost is going to be almost impossible for the average joe. Somebody with deep pockets, and outstanding credit history, and probably a financial backer for collateral is who is going to have to made the purchase of this property. Your best hope at this point is that come July 10th, Auction Day, there isn’t a qualified buyer who comes forward to purchase, or in another scenario, and I tend to think this is really going to be the case, the reason Charlie and partners have not communicated with any of you their plans is because they are working out a deal behind the scenes so that come Auction Day, it “appears” someone else is taking over, but in reality, it is still Charlie and crew who are in charge, with just another financial partner or backer. Regardless, all of the tenants/seasonal renters are at such an unfair disadvantage. To Nancy who posted that as renters you should not be entitled to anything, I’d like to point out that if you were renting an apartment and signed a one year lease, there are laws that protect you as a tenant from the landlord vacating you, threatening to change the terms of the agreement, etc. The seasonal campers have paid for the 2009 season, therefore are ENTITLED for the free and fair use of the grounds they rent, as stipulated by their rental agreement. And lest you forget Nancy, that while their rent may only be $3200 per season, and that may be what it cost to rent a cottage for a week (show me a “cottage” on Ossipee Lake that rents for that much??? – There are two MASSIVE houses that are for rent right now for $4000 that can house 3 large families…) but you should keep in mind that these seasonal renters are also paying for or have already invested thousands of dollars in the unit they are living and sleeping in. This is the reason for a campground on Ossipee Lake, to give those who otherwise could not afford access to the lake in any other way, this provides a cheaper alternative, and if folks can afford it, hey…all the power to them. I will again say that all of the negativity and name calling will not get anyone the answers they are longing for, but you are just as bad Nancy by calling these posters foolish, laughable, and acting immaturely. Put yourself in their shoes for one minute…think about if it were your home that you pay for each month that all of a sudden the bank stepped in and said,”Oh, by the way, I realize you are paid up for the next 4 months, but oh well, we need to foreclose on your house anyway.” How would you feel if you could not get answers from anyone? You’d feel just a lousy as most of these posters do.

    I don’t know what compels me to continue to come back to this website every day and post a comment or story, maybe it’s my own fear of losing the friendships I have formed over the years with those of you who camp at WWS, maybe it’s my fear of what will happen to this land if it ends up in the wrong hands, believe me, if I could, I’d let you all set up camp in my front yard, dock your boat on my beach, drive your golf carts up and down the street, and sit around a bonfire in the back yard with a drink in hand and a yummy marshmallow on a stick for toasting. I don’t know…let’s just hope for the best guys.

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  49. WOW 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Friend of camper,
    If you read the posting you will see that there would no need for a Bank to get involved in the transaction. There would be enough money to purchase the property out right without having a mortgage. There would also be no need to go through the “condo” process as we would not be selling sites, it would be set up like a condo with a Board of Directors.
    You would own a share in the property, at some point if you decide to sell you would be selling your share of the property.
    This can be done, it may cost a few thousand in Legal fees, but it can be done. I have seen this done before in other investments, it will work if we get enough people.

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  50. friend of a camper 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    Hi again Wow,
    Then you would then be making the assumption that all interested parties would be able to pool together several million dollars cash? Still not sure how that would work, because I would think if people had that much cash, they would look to invest in a private property rather than get involved in what seems to be a train wreck at this point. Not sure how many people at the campground have access to $60,000 cash, let alone $20,000, which then means taking out a loan somewhere along the way. Just my opinion, but by all means, if there is a way to make it work, you should all go for it!!! Good luck. I can personally say that I will most likely be showing up the day of the auction to find out what happens.

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  51. Watchful Eye 12 years ago June 17, 2009

    All that matters is July 10th. I think everyone should just sit and wait till then. If there is a God, he/she will be with the campers. I don’t even camp there anymore (personal reasons), but I still have a few selected friends. If Charlie, and “family” (cough, cough) and
    company do not want to try and salvage WWS with the campers, it’s his loss. If WOW can get people to invest, good for you, and I hope you can, but please let sceptacle campers aware of your plan; i.e. do you have an attorney, also I think you should set up a private website specifically for this and personally interview anyone interested. By private I mean a verifiable name, address & phone before they can be accepted to the wwebsite.
    I still have a stake in this – my friends.

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  52. BODY MAN 12 years ago June 18, 2009

    shure got quiet out there.

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  53. Mailbox 251 12 years ago June 18, 2009

    As of close of business today, auction still on schedule for July 10th.

    If you go to http://jsjauctions.com/uploads/pdf/TitleCommitment.pdf you can read the details of the 7 million dollar loan that is in default, details on the numerous tax liens and at least one personal lien against the property.

    Very interesting reading!

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